Print Story Social dynamics of the "Silly" stigma
Puzzles & Riddles
By Alan Crowe (Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 12:27:14 PM EST) (all tags)

Robin Hanson is a clever man with interesting ideas so he has been forced to consider the question of why certain ideas get rejected out of hand as "silly". He asks for answers on Overcoming Bias.

Silliness is an unstable social circularity. Explanation inside.



Let us start with "social circularity". If Alice copies Bob and Bob copies Carol and Carol copies Alice, who should David copy? If he wants to fit in he needs to pick one. If he winds up stranded on a desert island, he would do well to remember that the knowledge was ungrounded, it was only ever about what other people thought and to the extent that it appears to be about practical matters is likely wrong or even dangerous.

For contrast, imagine that Edward does some experiments in his laboratory before coming to a conclusion. Fiona copies Edward. George copies Fiona. Now who should David copy? Probably Edward. Copying Fiona carries the risk of an communication error, and copying George takes that risk twice. There are many important matters that we have not personally researched. Much of our knowledge comes to us by propagating through social networks. Loops are a worry.

When I say unstable I use Rayleigh-Taylor instability as a metaphor. Put a saucepan of water on the stove. Soon the dense cold water is underlayed by a layer of less dense warm water. Whoops! That is the wrong way up. Soon convection cells will form, with the less dense warm water rising in one place and the more dense cold water sinking in another.

The instability of the situation guarantees the formation of convection cells, but despite this certainty, some details are lacking. We do not know the position of the cells. Well, actually the physics tends to produce particular sizes and there are constraints on how they can fit in the saucepan. We have very little chance of guessing which way they will roll. The idea I want to foreground is the partial predictably of Rayleigh-Taylor instability. We understand it, but it also functions like the roll of a die. If we try to find reasons for the particular placement of the convections cells we will sometimes succeed, but in general we are chasing an illusion. The reason often goes no deeper than the fact that they have to form somewhere.

Now to think about the social dynamics of silliness. One glances at an idea, and it may be obvious that other people will reject it as silly. That pretty much kills ones interest. You should never question conventional wisdom. Maybe the idea makes your brain itch, and you think about it. This could go two ways. You might decide that the idea really is silly. You are happy to be part of the consensus that condemns it. Alternatively, you might decide that the idea OK in itself, it is the social climate that damns it.

Here comes the strange twist. When Alice copies Bob, does Alice copies Bob's actual views? Unlikely. Alice copies the simplified public version. If Bob has decided that an idea, considered in isolation, has merit, but is a non-starter because every-one else thinks that it is silly, then Alice copies the executive summary: This idea is silly. You can see how this might end up. Alice, Bob, and Carol have all given the idea some consideration, and are individually willing to take it further, but no-one does because "every-one else" thinks it is silly.

This strange twist is important. It plays the role of the hot flame under the saucepan, providing the energy that drives the dynamical system. Without it, the consensus that an idea was silly would rot away as individuals occasionally considered an idea, found it had merit, and dropped out of the consensus.

Obviously there are ideas that are inherently silly, corresponding to chimneys in my Rayleigh-Taylor instability metaphor: there are reasons why the fluid is rising at that particular place. We are not interested in rescuing ideas that are silly in this sense. We are interested in rescuing ideas that, considered in isolation, are reasonable, but have become caught in a social circularity due to the instability of social life not the defects of the idea.

The usual idea here is to understand something about the idea, something about its presentation or framing, not its essence, that causes it to be regarded as silly. Then the flaw in the idea can be fixed. I see this as a wild goose chase. Social mechanisms have amplified random fluctuations. There is no reason as such.

I think I know where I got my idea from: Duncan J. Watts. The paper

M. J. Salganik, P. S. Dodds, and D. J. Watts. Experimental study of inequality and unpredictability in an artificial cultural market. Science, 311, 854-856 (2006).
got a lot of coverage a couple of years ago.
Hit songs, books, and movies are many times more successful than average, suggesting that "the best" alternatives are qualitatively different from "the rest"; yet experts routinely fail to predict which products will succeed. We investigated this paradox experimentally, by creating an artificial "music market" in which 14,341 participants downloaded previously unknown songs either with or without knowledge of previous participants' choices. Increasing the strength of social influence increased both inequality and unpredictability of success. Success was also only partly determined by quality: The best songs rarely did poorly, and the worst rarely did well, but any other result was possible.
I'm just applying these ideas to try to understand "silliness", and offer the strange twist as the mechanism by which reasonable ideas get trapped in the "silly" ghetto.

So far, so bad. Good ideas get trapped in the "silly" ghetto. Is there any cure for this problem? What I've written is discouraging in that it suggests that this "just happens". There is no defect in the idea or its presentation that could have prevented it.

A different perspective is provided by Sapir-Whorf meets coding theory. God, that is densely written. If I unpacked into two thousand words with examples, somebody might be able to understand it. In this particular context I can boil it down. There are two things we might want to say about a silly idea.

  1. This idea is silly.
  2. This idea is reasonable, when considered in isolation, but is a non-starter because it is widely considered to be silly. So I'm not going to spend time on it, but count me out of the consensus that it is silly; I'm willing to give it serious consideration if you are.
The silliness ghetto exists because of a missing word. If there were a word to express the second thing one might want to say it would be communicated much more often.

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Social dynamics of the "Silly" stigma | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
You're being silly [en tea] by lm (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:38:29 PM EST


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic


I've actually been mugged . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 04:16:23 PM EST
. . . in the silly ghetto.

Not as fun as you'd think.



I'm missing by garlic (4.00 / 1) #3 Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 07:41:19 PM EST
I see how this can apply to cultural ideas, but how does it apply to scientific ideas? Got any examples? Also how do you show that an idea is definitively silly versus relatively silly?



Stomach ulcer fiasco by Alan Crowe (2.00 / 0) #4 Fri Apr 04, 2008 at 05:57:31 AM EST
The hypothesis that stomach ulcers were due to extremophile bacteria was dismissed as silly.

Actually it was worse than that. The standard story, when I was a lad, was that stomach ulcers happened to type A personalities. That hypothesis seems to have curled up and died, leaving a residue of skepticism about personality based explanations of medical conditions.

Heavier than air flying machines, space travel, the space elevator?

Actually it is takes real scholarship to ferret out the true story of historical examples. For example I read recently about a famous scientist who said, in the 1950's: Man will never travel to the moon.

He actually said: Man will never travel to the moon because getting there will cost as much as a small war.

So we learn that experts often do understand their own field, but when they stray into a different field such as politics (why might politicians fund a space program, and how much would they be willing to pay?) they err.

Here is a double example. Frank Whittle complained that his work on jet engines was dismissed as silly at about the same time that Alfred Wegener was complaining that his theory of continental drift was being dismissed as silly.

Many engineers found the thermodynamics of the jet engine easy to understand and correctly saw that it had to run hot. Efficient jet engines waited on the development of high temperature alloys. Heat and stress cause creep. The existing steel alloys would have slowly gone out of shape at the temperatures needed, and engine parts need to remain accurately the same shape.

Heat and stress cause creep, "solid" objects slowly change their shape. Was this point understood or not? Could people reject Wegener's work as silly because it required solid rock to slowly change shape under heat and stress while rejecting Whittle's work as silly because it required solid steel to retain its shape under heat and stress?

...how do you show that an idea is definitively silly versus relatively silly?

Wide ranging consistency. There should be a uniformity of general principle across diverse fields of study.

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